Smashing pictures, thankyou.....My Dad and I sat in his little Austin 7 for many an hour, (plus a pint of beer for him!), outside The Donkey House pub, waiting
for 'The River Queen' pleasure boat to 'come in'....another one of my Mother's many jobs! She really loved this job out of all that she
had...it was hard work providing food for all the trippers, but being a great cook and loving to feed people, she really took great pleasure in 'working on
the boats'......the boat-owner's little offices were quite near the Windsor Bridge exit steps. Her crew on the River Queen were always 'Pete, Pat
and Paddy', I remember their names because they all began, like my name, with a 'P' - One young crew member in particular was very talented. He
played the piano which was on the top deck.....he told us how he was taught by a very strict tutor......the tutor would put plates, (china), one under each arm
and make him play without dropping them. I steered The River Queen up the river on several occasions, but only when empty - one day, after turning the boat
round, we headed back towards The Donkey House moorings. Before passing under Windsor Bridge, Peter, the captain, shouted to 2 boats being rowed by Eton
boys...they obviously knew what to do, because he threw them a line and they passed it back along the rowers so that both boats could be towed by The River
Queen. NOT strictly the done thing or, for that matter, a wise thing to do, but, they quite often had a tow and loved it...The River Queen was a fantastic
little pleasure craft, not a steamer though, like Salters' bigger boats, moored on the other side of the bridge. I wonder if 'she' is still afloat,
do you know? Always a happy atmosphere on the river when she was motoring along. I hardly dare ask if you have any pictures of 'her'. I have a photo
of my Dad, in his blazer, with buttonhole, of course, when he was very young and worked for Salter's Steamers. I'll search it out.
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The Royal Windsor Forum |
Rare Views Latest - A new view of Thameside from the East Terrace
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 Pat Larkin |
The Donkey House | ||
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Posts: 192 (06/19/08 04:31:36) |
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thamesweb |
Various River Queens | ||
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Posts: 1237 (06/19/08 12:49:48) |
This site features All sorts of Boats and Steamers and Ships!!! The page above details several 'River Queens'. Which one would be yours? |
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Pat Larkin |
River Queen | ||
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Posts: 193 (06/20/08 00:42:06) |
Thanks for a good, informative link thamesweb. I've trawled for an hour now and loved it all. So many names of boats I remember seeing down by the river
years ago. A pleasure to look at their photos and recall some happy times..
The River Queen in the photo you've printed looks like 'her'......sleek, neat and white....lovely craft. Sad to read on the link you provided that Keith French bought her and thought her unfit for use so probably sunk her.....where are boats 'sunk', or don't you know? She was well-loved and taken care of in 'those days', every piece of brass was polished, seats were cleaned, ropes always tidy and she had her own 'aroma' as boats do. The piano mentioned before was stowed under a tarpaulin on the top deck and was never, to my knowledge, used on any trips in those days, only being played once passengers had 'gone' and the crew had been fed by my Mother. She baked cakes at home for them too, they were always eaten in minutes and appreciated by the 'Three P's'. I couldn't find any mention of The Windsor Belle. She was a favourite of my Dad 's. He called her 'The Windsor Belly', even though everyone told him it was pronounced 'Bell'..... A visit to see the boats is a must for us on our next trip 'up'..... |
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thamesweb |
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Posts: 1239 (06/20/08 01:32:20) |
Windsor Belle
Windsor Belle is in lovely condition and lives upstream around Bourne End area I think. As to where boats are sunk, I don't know. It can't be anywhere in the upper reaches as they would be a hazard to other boats, and I did hear that when the Empress of India sank somewhere in Sunbury reach the EA insisted that the hull was cleared away at some cost to the owners. That could have been Turks a few years ago. About that time Windsor Castle was moored up nearby and was the subject of a restoration plan. I don't think it happened and she is now firewood (damp!) quite possibly. Anyone any news?? Here is the 'Last Post' for the Windsor Castle |
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Pat Larkin |
Windsor Belle | ||
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Posts: 194 (06/20/08 23:10:55) |
Thankyou. I used your link and there was The Windsor Belle.....she looks so elegant and really, beautiful. Those responsible must be very proud of her.
Thankyou again.
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benm |
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Posts: 1 (07/02/08 06:57:58) |
River Queen:
Built:1896 by E.J Cawston Length:60ft Operators: J Cawston(1896-1930) Salter Bros(1947-71) Reading Marine (1971-1972) French Bros(1972-80) Broken up (1984) possibly after being sunk as Keith French saw her too far gone. A member of my website writes: "the stinking sinking river queen as she was known to the salters boys , she always needed her bilges pumped out and that was in 1966, she also had elsan bucket toilets instead of flush units not nice in the middle of the summer season " |
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Pat Larkin |
The River Queen. | ||
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Posts: 208 (07/02/08 09:43:03) |
Never mind, I shall remember her as I knew her. My late Mother and I, and I'm sure thousands of 'day trippers', shared lots of fond memories of
her. Shame about her bilges though!! And, it wasn't her fault that her Elsan bucket toilets hadn't been updated - ! Shame on the Salter Boys.....
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benm |
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Posts: 2 (07/02/08 11:19:17) |
Do you have any photographs of her Pat?
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thamesweb |
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Posts: 1257 (07/02/08 11:23:23) |
A big welcome to Ben who I know is very knowledgeable and enthusiastic about steamers... perhaps we can entice him to tell us some more about his background.
BTW - What happened to the River Queen during the 1930s and WWII? Also BTW - It seems to me that the steel hulled boats have lasted longer than the woodies, or am I imagining it? |
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benm |
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Posts: 3 (07/02/08 14:16:44) |
Thanks very much for the welcome!
Most of the steamers were either laid up or used in a wartime riverbus service during WWII. 
This photo taken in 1940,could have been the line up of 12 passenger boats that were put into service in Sept 1940 by the London Transport Board to help the war effort from Westminster to Woolwich. The steamers used were The King,Princess Beatrice,Marchioness,His Majesty,New Windsor Castle,Windsor Belle and a few others. 3 tugs were also used. In answer to your second question,there are hardly any wooden boats left on the river (of tunnel boat design). As you know wood is alot weaker than steel and when not looked after rots and many boats have been scrapped or sunk over the years. Some lovely ones were lost at Dunkirk also. Salters Steamers still maintain many of the original steamers that they owned,these all being steel hulled. Cliveden is one of there fleet that has sadly been out of service since 1996 due to strict MCA rules,which also stopped the New Windsor Castle and Empress of India. |
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Pat Larkin |
The Windsor Belle | ||
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Posts: 210 (07/02/08 23:37:21) |
Hi benm. Sadly, no, I don't have any photographs, I wish I had. After reading your contribution, I now know that wooden hulls are less likely to
survive than steel ones....maintaining these boats must have cost the owners a lot of money and I can see how, gradually, over the years, the wooden hulls
would have rotted if they were not maintained for any length of time.
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thamesweb |
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Posts: 1259 (07/03/08 01:42:17) |
Thanks to Ben we now have a specific thread for Thames steamers. The link is below. I suggest that all other posts re steamers be put there including answers
to Pat's queries which will be interesting.
Passenger Thames Steamers Thread |
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benm |
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Posts: 5 (07/03/08 03:47:38) |
Salters do infact have a drydock/boathouse somewhere in Oxford. I know this because the Cliveden has been out of there water since 1996.
To my knowledge Windsor Belle did not go to dunkirk. However New Windsor Castle did. You can see a list here : http://www.adls.org.uk/shiplist.cfm Perhaps the most wonderful steamer lost at Dunkirk was the S.L England: http://riverthames.galacgallery.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_England_Brochure-01_b.jpg A fine looking vessel. Personally i have been looking for Dunkirk steamer photos/video for a while but as of yet no luck. |
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thamesweb |
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Posts: 1263 (07/03/08 10:29:42) |
I heard somewhere that although called upon to be ready New Windsor Castle did not actually cross the channel to Dunkirk because of the freeboard issue.
Can't say when or where I heard that. 'England' is a beauty, to be sure. Port holes all along. I wonder why?
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thamesweb |
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Posts: 1268 (07/05/08 01:21:49) |
Following on from the Thames Side image earlier in this thread, here is a view of the level crossing just outside the Southern Railway Station on the road between Romney Lock and the Home Park. It is probably twenty or so years earlier than the Thames Side image but I doubt much had changed in that time. Nice little hut adjacent. I wonder if that was for the man solely in charge of the level crossing, or would he have had other tasks? The large tree visible in the middle of the view used to stand in the middle of the western side of the Home Park before the introduction of official sports fields, etc. It would be interesting to find out when this tree was felled, but my feeling is, from the very many postcard views of the Home Park throughout the 1900s, that it would have been around 1910. Who can confirm this? As a prelim to the forthcoming selection of stereoviews and launch of our stereoviewers, herewith the stereo version of the c.1867 level crossing view... 
...and here is a stereoview from much the same time showing the Home Park and, I assume, the same tree.
Last Edited By: thamesweb
07/10/08 15:18:13.
Edited 4 times.
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thamesweb |
Dating the above Level Crossing View | ||
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Posts: 1269 (07/05/08 03:20:10) |
It is often not possible to accurately date photographs without specialist knowledge of the technique used to create them (exposure times, etc.) or clues in
the picture itself, the construction or alteration dates of buildings, copyright dates, tree growth, period costumes or design features being useful aids.
Rarely is the picture actually dated!
But the picture above is dated! To the day! But it is only a small help because the date written on the mount is 19th February 1868 and the picture shows the large tree in leaf, it's summer time therefore. The date is more likely to be when the owner visited Windsor or bought the stereo. So the picture itself was taken at any time during or before 1867. The earliest date must be 1849 of course as that is when the railway arrived in Windsor but to be realistic stereo photography did not really take off until the mid to late 1850s. This reduces the window to roughly 1857 - 1867. The publisher is F Jones but sadly the above picture, actually a stereoview, only gives his name. I had to check another stereoview to discover that his address at one time was 146 Oxford Street London, and he was a Fred Jones. This information was embossed in the card mount. As the mounts are similar it can be assumed that they are almost contemporary, but at one point, the time of the level crossing print, Fred did not use the embossing method to identify his products, he merely stuck a label on the back giving the location and his name. So was the embossing of his cards a later method? Probably. Another aspect of the whole dating problem is that famous photographers such as George Washington Wilson would sell copies of their photographs and stereos to other publishers over quite a long period such that even if it is a genuine GWW image, it will not be marked as such. Never mind. I am happy that the Level Crossing looked like it does in the picture for at least the first twenty years of its life, and probably for a lot longer. EDIT: I am told that 'The Treadwell/Darrah Resource says he produced in 1862-68, and that his work is uncommon.'
Last Edited By: thamesweb
07/05/08 06:37:29.
Edited 1 times.
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Pat Larkin |
Stereo | ||
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Posts: 222 (07/07/08 06:13:36) |
When the 'viewers' arrive, will we see this picture in more detail? It's a great picture when you think it was 'taken' in the 1850's-1860's. I've looked at it with a magnifying glass because I thought I could see the shape of someone near the hut door...I wondered if someone inside the hut
may have come outside during the exposure time, and the 'ghost' image recorded...more likely though, it's the grease and dirt from workers'
hands making patterns on the door!
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thamesweb |
Victorian photography | ||
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Posts: 1270 (07/07/08 08:07:32) |
There is an interesting article here about Victorian photography and the technical background. Slow exposures, making your plate prior to the photograph and
developing it subsequently on site. Fascinating stuff. Guildford Photo Museum
It doesn't show in the screen image but there are wheel tracks in the roadway of what I am sure is a three wheeled vehicle! I.e. Two wheel tracks with a third in the middle! No way of telling of course unless a photographic museum somewhere knows of such a vehicle belonging to a certain Fred Jones! Now that is a long shot! |
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Pat Larkin |
The Level Crossing by the Southern Station | ||
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Posts: 223 (07/09/08 08:35:36) |
Having looked at this photo again, I think that what I saw as a 'door', is actually a noticeboard. Health & Safety surely wouldn't allow a door
to open straight onto a railway line, well, not now anyway!
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Pat Larkin |
Dunkirk Steamer videos. | ||
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Posts: 225 (07/10/08 05:38:23) |
benm, I put 'Dunkirk steamer videos' into Google, and up came lots of sites. Trouble is, it takes a while to look at them, although there are one or
two very interesting videos there. You may have looked at these sites before, but if not, have a go.
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