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Caleys - Planning applications in for demolition

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thamesweb	Caleys - Planning applications in for demolition	Lead	[-]
Posts: 2501 (18-Jan-2006 08:26 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This thread has been updated to include links (further down the page) to the Borough Planning pages where an application has been lodged to demolish most of the Grade II Listed building, formerly Caleys. __________ Windsor's flagship store, Caleys, part of the John Lewis group, is to close at the end of July 2006. Most shop closures are barely remarked upon, but for Windsor to lose Caleys is an event of great significance and sadness. Many Windsorians have shopped at Caleys all their lives, be it for upholstery or dressmaking fabrics, carpets, clothes and the many other household and day to day items of quality for which the shop was renowned. The advent of internet shopping, plus the passing of those home furnishing skills of years gone by, mean that Caleys, John Lewis's smallest retail premises, is no longer profitable. Gordon Stenton, MD of Caleys, says that the location, size and layout of the building will always stand in the way of any prospect of a return to profitable trading. The decision will no doubt initiate a long and protracted debate about what should happen to the premises. It could be revamped as a hotel or offices, it could even be refurbished as smaller retail units, but whatever the building's long term future, WMBC MUST ensure that it is not lost to the town. Windsor needs a museum!!! Whatever happens - make sure some space is set aside for a decent museum and not the postage stamp that has been allocated on the outskirts of the shopping area in the college redevelopment.
unsurprised	Re: Caleys to close in July	#1	[-]
Posts: 1 (20-Jan-2006 12:02 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I can't say I'm surprised - I worked at Caleys until last year, and it was shockingly badly run. Certainly all the staff knew that it was just a matter of time, no matter how often we were told that Caleys wouldn't close. Having worked there for over 3 years, I became more & more embarrassed at the state the shop was in & the lengths the staff were expected to go to, all for little or no appreciation. Of course, as a Windsor resident I'm sad to see the shop close, as it has been a Windsor institution for so long, but I'm relieved that the end has finally come. I wonder what will happen to the building now? It's really too complicated a building for retail units, and it's listed, so will be difficult to convert into anything else. I hope that the building will now get the care & attention it's needed for years, and which was neglected by John Lewis.
Andrew81371	Caleys	#2	[-]
Posts: 1 (20-Jan-2006 11:18 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I am very sad to hear that Caleys is to close after nearly two centuries of trading in Windsor. I am dismayed that John Lewis considers the shop to be beyond saving despite the obvious inadequacies of space and layout. The building is very beautiful and I'm sure could have been renovated in great style, adding more space and facilities and rationalizing a number of its different levels, whilst retaining its unique listed architectural features. Despite making claims to the contrary, John Lewis has clearly made minimal investment in Caleys over recent decades. Had the desire been there to make Caleys a success for the 21st century I'm sure it could have been pulled off with great effect. Expansion into neighbouring sites, the rebuilding of unlisted parts of the store and the creation of a proper customer service building with park and ride (see Robert Sayle page on John Lewis website) could all have been done at Caleys by a true visionary. As the internet becomes increasingly popular surely the 'bricks and mortar' shop should be increasingly unique. I believe this could be better achieved on Windsor High Street than in any retail park. There is surely no better place for a department store than opposite Windsor Castle. I would have thought trade was pretty much guaranteed to be brisk for at least another two centuries and well worth any level of investment. Considering what John Lewis has recently spent on their Peter Jones store it is sickening to think that the town is to lose such an important treasure.
zoom	Re: Caleys	#3	[-]
Posts: 3 (26-Jan-2006 01:18 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It is sad the Caleys has finally bitten the dust. However i find it more symbolic of what Windsor has and is becoming. Windsor has declined as a town over the last 20 years, both as a shopping and social centre to the point where certainly for people who grew up there, it has little to recommend it. Obviously Windsor should strive to keep it's historical past, but it has neither moved with the times nor made the most of it's history and calleys sadly represents another nail in the coffin to all except the yuppie Wine-Bar brigade for whom everything is now catered for.
thamesweb	Re: Caleys	#4	[-]
Posts: 2501 (26-Jan-2006 05:57 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Interesting point of view. It would be worth highlighting what we have lost in the past twenty years, and what we have gained. What benefits have the linking up with Maidenhead brought us in the last thirty years?
zoom	Re: Caleys	#5	[-]
Posts: 3 (27-Jan-2006 03:35 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	In the last 20 years we have lost many shops, in particular specialist shops in St Leonards Road, one supermarket, one department store, a saturday market, the vansitart road athletics track, one nightclub, a cinema, countless pubs ,Windsor safari park (yes i know its now lego land), Various Schools in particualr the only mixed secondary school in the town PMRF, the Royalty & Empire exhabition in Windsor Central station, the bus station, a down grading of the King Edward the 7th hospital, free entry to all into windsor castle grounds, the old Lido/outdoor pool, the live music venue (old trout). In addition, the town still does not have a museum (amazing), has had various planning applications/proposals turned down notably a bowling alley at the site of what was the old Safeway trainning area, the movement of the Windsor and eton football club to the running track at vansitart road, and a tram link to legoland/north/west windsor. Personally i don't see who the link with Maidenhaed has brought the town when you see the rejuvination of that town centre and the facilities on offer there. Doom and gloom? Maybe but does anyone actually think the place has got better since Gordon Geko moved in?
thamesweb	Re: Caleys	#6	[-]
Posts: 2501 (29-Jan-2006 09:20 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Some interesting projects there that had escaped my attention, such as the football club coming to Van Rec (Not possible - it is Public Open Space) and a tram to and from Legoland. The demise of the Saturday market is an interesting one and although I didn't use it, I can understand that many would have wanted to. The Vansittart Road Athletics Ground has been replaced by a major venue just beyond Eton which I would have thought was a better facility all round. The nightclub? Surely we still have a late night venue in that building? A cinema? Sign of the times, but The Arts Centre have what I assume is a thriving cinema for specialist films shows. Countless pubs - well, we are not short in the pub department! Windsor Safari Park replaced by Legoland so we still have a theme park. My gripe is that all the signposts to it funnel traffic down Imperial Road EVEN IF they are coming from Old Windsor direction. No Lego traffic is signposted down St Leonards Road - the authorities prefer to send it down Goslar Way and back into an already congested Imperial Road, past two schools! It used to be past three schools but moving Trevelyan into PMRFs buildings at least eased that slightly. Beforehand PMRF probably had to close as it was plagued by fluctuating pupil numbers as army families came and went. That is one reason anyway. At least the schools that remain are said to be good. Royalty & Empire exhibition in Windsor Central Station? True, but replaced by some classy shops - can't tell you which - never go there to buy anything - no never, ever! And surely the exhibition was a one visit wonder and contributed nil to Windsor life. The bus station - need to talk to Greenline about that, but surplus to requirements and not, I think, much of a loss in terms of Windsor as a town. Now if the buses stopped coming to Windsor... that would be different. 'A down grading of the King Edward the 7th hospital' - Economic necessity, was it not? With Ascot and Heatherwood close by, it seemed an extravagance. Anyway, nothing Windsor could have done about it. 'Free entry to all into Windsor Castle grounds.' Well, when half the country demands that the Queen pays for the repairs to a state owned jewel such as Windsor Castle after the fire, then what can you expect? And see Royal Landscape project in the Park which looks like going the same way! 'The old Lido/outdoor pool.' No loss there - we have a fine Leisure Centre in the town now and that must be a step or six forward. Finally, the live music venue at The Old Trout. Not really got a view on this - not my cup of tea anyway - but it is true that there is a need for a small to medium size hall for public performances of all sorts. I hear that the new licensing laws and fees for live music permits are now so exorbitant that no-one in their right mind will consider it any more! Blame Tony for that one... and a lot more besides!
zoom	Re: Caleys	#7	[-]
Posts: 3 (31-Jan-2006 12:08 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It depends what you want from a town. I do not feel that generally over the last 20 years Windsor has developed for the better. I don't have figures, but from the experience i had of working in retail and hospitality in the town i have seen first hand the drop in tourist numbers. Whilst foreign visitors are thrilled with simply a visit to see Windsor Castle, homegrown tourists often see the castle as poor value for money and a visit uninformative. The point is Windsor has not protected and promoted its heritage. Yes it has the castle, but in all honesty what else is there? The shops and restaurant trade that has developed in Windsor targeted at the tourist market between the months of April and september has done so at the expense of buisness for local people. Any town needs a balance and should cater for all it's residents. Whilst you are fine if you wish to shop for designer clothing in Windsor Royal Arcade, you are less fortunate walking down peascod street to purchase a washing machine, or even a newspaper. Whilst i accept many enjoy the Nightlife Windsor has to offer, places like the OLd Trout, the Bronx and the Donkey house have all gone and been replaced by either restaurants or closed all together. Great for visitors off to windsor races who fancy dinner, but not so good for those who want a pint and a game of pool. Local traders and the council would do well to remember that it is there duty to represent all sections of society. The young people and residents of Windsor today, are more likely to have a say in the towns future if they are given there place too on the high street. The alternative? The souless rich mans playground the town has become, it saddens me greatly to have see it.
thamesweb	Re: Caleys	#8	[-]
Posts: 2501 (31-Jan-2006 04:25 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think the main problem with any town is that it is dependent on financial investment to remain viable and to 'grow'. Most of that comes only from businesses that see the likelihood of a return on their investment. That limits the type of business that can exist or be established in a town and is why a museum at the top of the town - sorely needed though it is - will not happen without substantial subsidies from a variety of sources, especially if a prime site like Caleys is selected for it. In contrast, local authorities are always short of money and so will allow all sorts of developments to increase income for the Borough coffers. It is inevitable that, being profit driven, most will appeal only to the most common of denominators and will be unimaginative. Windsor does have a number of special features going for it, the river, the Great Park and Virginia Water, the proximity to London, the theatre, TWO rail lines and of course the castle which, although locals rarely visit, provides a stunningly beautiful backdrop almost every day! I feel for those towns which are merely ordinary with a bog-standard shopping centre, a multistorey car park, a bypass if they are lucky, a motorway if they are unlucky, nothing of particular interest in the non-descript surrounding countryside and probably a couple of ugly factories on their doorstep where many of the locals work. Oh, yes, and most of the houses were rather shoddily built in the 50s! We do score one or two brownie points!
windsorsoup	Caleys	#9	[-]
Posts: 8 ( 7-Feb-2006 12:04 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Those of us who have been interested for years in a museum for Windsor would surely welcome such a development in the Caleys building. Slough has a museum, as has Kingston and Chertsey. The fact that Windsor stores its memorabilia next to where it stores dustcarts says a lot about the town management from Maidenhead. However ideas that the whole store on its vast site, it is at least five buildings could be a museum does not seem to square with the way modern property valuation works. What could be asked for is planning gain. Its a polite word for bribery. The local authority says you can do X but give us part of the property for Y. Y in this case is a museum. Caleys must be a listed site. It has a fascinating history. Mrs Maria Caley , milliner to King George IIIs wife Queen Charlotte, opened her first shop in Windsor in 1813 though not on that site. The trouble is the word museum sounds a bit fusty. All robes of former aldermen and stuff. But it need not be. One of the fascinating links Windsor has is with the film and music industry. There can be few towns whose old street are recorded on film as is Windsor. There can be few towns which have hosted so many of the stars of the past. That could be incorporated. Imagine. See the town as it was on film Windsor is in essence a tourist town. Yet sometimes poor souls come from the other side of the world to visit and find the castle closed. The tourist office would love to have somewhere to send them Indeed it would love to have somewhere to send itself, since it is under threat. What we do not want is for the building to be empty for ages as so many are in Windsor. Non English reading foreigners watching coverage of the recent royal wedding as it progressed up the High Street to the Guildhall must think that Offices to Let is some kind of loyal greeting to royalty so many such signs were visible. BBC childrens TV concluded recently the last episode of a series called Johnny and the Bomb in which children travel back in time to the War. Windsor children do not need television to imagine boarded up buildings. Some pass on their way to Trevelyan School in St Leonard's Road a set of cottages derelict for years. For years also they could see the old library rotting as East Berks College went in for its latest property speculation. (Langley first. Maidenhead next.) Now they can see the boarded up Georgian terrace in of the former hospital and on the opposite corner a Georgian house that has stood empty for two years and the adjoining pet shop now with no roof. And further up Clarence Road more boarded up buildings by the roundabout. There are many including ex- councillors who think that the merger of Windsor with Maidenhead was a disaster for Windsor . Perhaps we need a WIG.A Windsor Independence Group to stand at the next local election So a decision, and a decision quickly please
thamesweb	Re: Caleys	#10	[-]
Posts: 2501 ( 7-Feb-2006 01:39 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hear, hear. It is a great sadness that the town has rather more than its fair share of boarded up homes, partly because when the planning committee says 'No' the developers run to their friend Prescott at the ODPM to get the decision overturned. Which it often is - but only after a lengthy delay. Strange that, but true, how the words 'developers, friend, labour government' so often appear in the same sentence these days. Little wonder that there is much mumbling in the government back benches over the policies of New Labour. The Caleys site would be perfect location for a museum, couldn't be better. Obviously not the whole building, that would be silly, but a worthwhile chunk of it, quite possibly somewhere on the upper floor, supported by the new owners of the building and other interested parties. It makes sense to make it a condition of planning permission to convert the rest of the building to whatever the new owners choose. No doubt someone will say it cannot be done, they will probably be from Maidenhead! PS Happy to be a WIG founder member!
windsorsoup	Development and a WIG	#11	[-]
Posts: 8 ( 8-Feb-2006 11:33 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Glad someone agrees with my Windsor Independence Group idea. Slogans to spark the imagination. Get the cover of a WIG. We need WIGS for Windsor. Do9nt moan , WIG it. But there is a serious point. The castle dominates the news of the town as a place to live. But as a town it has lost what are certain essentials. Joke is, get born in Wexham or Heatherwood. School in Windsor. OK. Leave school. Go to Slough job centre. Romance? Civil wedding in Maidenhead. Town Hall. Naughty boy? Court in Slough.( The ballad of Reading jail?) Come out. Get seriously ill. Wexham or Heatherwood , all the way with flashing blue lights. (Government talks about cutting car journeys.) Expire. Burnt in Slough. RIP. Not a town any more but a suburb not sure where it is a suburb of. Sure, Labour Prescott is partly to blame for boarded up dereliction. Myth is because South East affluent every one is. But not solely. It was Conservatism which preached the fairy magic of the market and weakened control over local matters by local people. (There are some who still think they live in Berkshire.) Prescotts Hull council built loads of housing but no employers want to go there, they want the SE triangle, so that is where the housing goes. Three decisions which shaped part of Windsor. 1 Royal Free school closes. Berkshire Shire council ( ran libraries) decide good site for library. Some housing but building preserved. Give former library St Leonards Road and other buildings to education. East Berks College then under Berkshire Shire Education. 2. Major government abolished Berkshire County Council. Not Bucks ( Conservative) or Surrey ( Conservative.) Chap called Gerry Mander. We finish up living under Windsor and Maidenhead. Could be worse. Some people live in a non existent place called Bracknell Forest. Makes them sound as though they are southern Robin Hoods living in timber cabins. 3.Major government took technical colleges away from locally elected Local Education Authorities, away from the control of locally elected councillors. Local councillors may be poor souls but you can vote them out, and even WIG yourself. Result corruption in the further education sector.. There is a college principal in court for fraud this week. ( Source TES FE supplement ). Locally a principal was suspended for six months, returned and resigned and all with no publicity. Imagine if that had been head of a Windsor School. This is a public institution paid for from public funds yet no word as to why. It has a self appointing unaccountable governing body. This is like the trust schools Blair is trying to foist on the secondary sector. Having acquired the old library the college boarded it up and let it rot. This was not a commercial property developer like the Clarence Road gang but a public institution. Instead of a restoration such as the brilliant Templars Hall job ( former Labour Hall ) in St Leonards Road. We now see monstrous result as the steel skeleton arises. The thing is going to dwarf the surrounding buildings including Trinity Church. Walk around Windsor, a guide booklet available in the Information Centre says Windsor, home to Queen Victoria is essentially a Victorian town. Not around there it isnt any more. So the Lib Dems come out squeaky clean? Not really. The whole time of the boarding up of Victorian buildings a Lib Dem Windsor Councillor has been on the board of governors. You did not elect him there. He was appointed. If you vote him out at the election he can still remain a governor. As the housing goes up . So who wants to be a WIG at the next election.
thamesweb	Caleys site bought by developer	#12	[-]
Posts: 2501 ( 1-May-2006 10:12 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The Observer of 21st April reports that the Caleys site has been sold to High Point Estates and that four chain stores and a low cost hotel could well move in. It is good news that the property will not be boarded up and empty for several years (as is happening elsewhere in the town while planners and developers battle it out) and as much of the property is Grade II listed (albeit with a rebuilt facade) there should be little change to the street scene other than the contents of the shop windows provided that the new occupants respect the need for discrete signage in this sensitive part of the town.
Unregistered(d)	Unsurprised but so sad	#13	[-]
Posts: 0 ( 9-Aug-2006 08:33 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I too have worked at Caleys for many years and all I can say is "what came first the chicken or the egg?" How can the public expect a company to continue investing into a business that is not making money or showing any signs of recovery? Money WAS spent on Caleys, some of which was on the cafe, but no sensible business would continue investment without a return! Sadly the trade at Caleys declined over may years, no doubt partly due to parking diffiuclties,the lure of free parking at High Wycombe and also because of John Lewis.com. The public were oh so sad but it was because they did not support us that we closed! As a survival mechanism we were forced to run on smaller numbers,we were more stretched but still we were dedicated to Caleys and its customers. I have to say that the customers had clearly not completely forgotten us as I have never seen so many of them at our final clearance in their droves! Shame they hadnt come earlier!
thamesweb	Re: Caleys - Planning applications in for demolition	#14	[-]
Posts: 2501 (25-Jun-2007 05:10 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Caleys Demolition: Planning PDFs Warning: This link is very slow to load but eventually opens with a set of drawings of the planned redevelopment on the Caleys site as PDFs. The plans apparently allow for the retension of the facade, but as that was rebuilt within the last 60 years, that is no great deal, and anyway, who remembers what happened to the Albert Institute facade???!!! Well, Windsor, do you want yet another characterful building demolished and replaced with 21st Century banal? Take a walk along the High Street, and Peascod Street and other adjacent roads and ask yourself "Where are all the old buildings, those 'quaint' old buildings, that made Windsor what it is?" Slowly but surely, they are going. One by one, such that in little more than a generation they will all be gone. Or is modern better?
thamesweb	Re: Caleys - Planning applications in for demolition	#15	[-]
Posts: 2501 (25-Jun-2007 05:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	More Planning Info link The above link features handwritten notes referring to previous planning applications made by Caleys, the earliest for a rebuild of the facade made back in 1948/49. This might have failed for another was lodged in 1951 and I believe this was allowed, though I am happy to be corrected. Nonetheless Caleys is a Grade II listed building and the application before the Borough now involves the demolition of 75% of the existing building. In other words, of a gross volume of 24,500cu.mtrs, the demolition of some 18,400cu.mtrs is sought.
thamesweb	Re: Caleys - Planning applications in for demolition	#16	[-]
Posts: 2501 (25-Jun-2007 05:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It seems that the remaining 25% of the original building will be adjacent to the High Street and that the majority of the demolition for which permission is sought will be at the back of the building.
Pat Larkin	Caley's Hotel	#17	[-]
Posts: 562 ( 6-May-2009 05:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Is Caley's going to be known, in future, as Caley's Hotel???