'Around Windsor', In Old Photographs, compiled by Beryl Hedges.

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Pat Larkin	'Around Windsor', In Old Photographs, compiled by Beryl Hedges.	Lead	[-]
Posts: 181 (06/03/08 09:55:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I've found my copy of this great 'little' book which tells, in old photos, some of the history of Windsor, Clewer, Dedworth and several other local towns/villages. I bought it in Peascod Street a few years ago, then lost it 'til yesterday. I paid around £5.00, I think, but the printed price on the back cover is £7.99 and still well worth every penny. I have scanned every photo, but, I still can't find the 'tall chimney or structure' which is evident on the old postcard view of Victoria Street. There are some excellent pictures in the book and on page 12, the actor, John Mills and his daughter, Juliet, are seen at The Clewer and Dedworth Community Association Summer fete in 1949. A really good photo too of the Revd. Cyprian Dymoke-Marr, who was President of the association. There is also mention of The Windsor Fire Brigade Open Day, and in the background is St. Mark's School. It doesn't have the year the photos of the brigade were taken though. Is this book still on sale, does anyone know - if so, it's well worth getting your hands on. I would imagine thamesweb already has a copy!
Mayor of Bexley		#1	[-]
Posts: 37 (06/24/08 05:46:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Take this book with a pinch of salt (lots of mistakes)
thamesweb		#2	[-]
Posts: 1245 (06/24/08 11:20:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You are right about some mistakes. Perhaps we should use this thread to correct them where we can. First off page 62 where Kipling Building is said to be the St Marks School buildings renamed. The truth is that Kipling Building was built in 1939 in the grounds of Imperial Service College. I must admit I cannot quite place the pictures on this page. Can anyone else? There is a nice mis-naming on page 91 where it refers to the Lord Lucan pub... It was actually the Lord Raglan PH! That said, Beryl Hedges is a well-known, well-respected, local historian and I have no doubt is well aware of the slips that somehow crept in especially if others contributed erroneous info!
Pat Larkin		#3	[-]
Posts: 201 (06/24/08 23:49:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	We did notice the 'Lord Lucan' ricket. Neither of us knows the buildings in the pictures though. They'll be something else to search for, like 'the chimney' - !!! Having said that, we still read and re-read the book and it has given us a lot of pleasure. To be able to look into the past, where buildings and 'old Windsorians' are concerned, is so interesting to us. To actually see 'Dedworth' in print with pictures too of Vale Road during the 1947 floods and Sir John Mills opening the fete in 1949, puts the stamp of approval on 'the book' for me anyway. I have searched for old photos of Dedworth on the internet and, until I found this book, I was unsuccessful so, I thank Beryl Hedges and hope she might, one day, produce another, who knows?
thamesweb		#4	[-]
Posts: 1250 (06/28/08 13:59:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If anyone would like a copy there is one on Ebay as of June 28. 'Around Windsor'
valmason	Windsor in Old Photographs	#5	[-]
Posts: 1 (10/23/08 08:28:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Beryl Hedges has also published the above title in 1988, ISBN 0-86299-546-9. I have never been able to get hold of any extra copies though. It's a pity as it is full of interesting photos of the town.
Pat Larkin	Books about Windsor	#6	[-]
Posts: 365 (10/23/08 09:02:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi Val, I have just received in the post today, a copy of 'Streets of Windsor & Eton'. thamesweb suggested this book and I used the link on this forum to contact the 'Windsor Local History Publications Group'. I haven't had the chance to read it through yet, but what I've seen is so interesting and will, I'm sure, teach me a whole lot more about Windsor and Eton. The number of this book is ISBN 0-9505-567-69. It costs £6.50 plus £2.00 p&p. I sent the cheque off Tuesday afternoon, and was surprised to get my book so quickly. Another book which is advertised within this book is 'WINDSOR, A Thousand Years, a living history'. This particular book was published in 2001 to celebrate the millenium.. I'm sending for this one next! Thanks for the information re. Beryl Hedges' book, 'Windsor in Old Photographs', this will be something to look out for and hunt down.
thamesweb		#7	[-]
Posts: 1537 (10/23/08 15:06:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	WINDSOR, A Thousand Years, a living history I think this is out of print, but I just happen to have small stock...
Pat Larkin	thamesweb's 'small stock'	#8	[-]
Posts: 367 (10/24/08 03:17:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Why am I not surprised? I think another book-shelf is needed in a certain household!!
cranbourne		#9	[-]
Posts: 16 (10/25/08 01:00:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Talking of all the published local history books, does anybody know of a database or reference list where anybody can look for maps, photos & pictures of specific places or features in the district? Having been asked to provide local history pictures/info for friends and the odd history buff on occasions, I've sometimes thought about creating one myself using my own little library as a starting point, and then having it placed somewhere where local history enthusiasts can use it (Windsor Reference Library, perhaps?), or even add to the database themselves from their own book collections. Would it be of any use - would it be worth the effort?
thamesweb	Windsor resources	#10	[-]
Posts: 1539 (10/25/08 02:43:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Sounds like a good idea, and it is in essence what the Royal Windsor Website is striving to provide. After all, we do aim to be 'An Ever Growing Reference Area for Windsor Past and Present'. One aspect that is essential is that the information be available online, i.e. via the web. Although in years gone by everyone would visit the local library for information of this kind, today most researchers would jump on the web first and hope to find what they were looking for there. My long term objective for the RWWS is to add information of all kinds as it comes along. An interesting picture here, a forum recollection there, and, increasingly, snippets of film too. Over time these can become a really useful article on the subject. We have some good memories in the Dedworth thread, for example, that touches on people and their way of life and the history of local buildings. I am delighted to have been able to include pictures taken at the time the houses and prefabs were being built around Foster Avenue for example. There are also the 'school memories' which are very valuable and is forming the basis for a great article that will, like a special wine, mature over time and be of increasing interest to readers in the coming years. I sincerely hope that what we read and write today will remain available in one form or other for centuries to come. But there are difficulties, not least, time and money. My approach has always been to cover a subject as and when an opportunity to do so arises. It might be the discovery of an old photo, or an enquiry by a member of the public, or an anniversary perhaps, or of course when an interesting chunk of history turns up. It has to be this way as the website is not a paid, full-time occupation, and probably never will be as it cannot generate a worthwhile income. It has to be done for love therefore. Another limitation is the technical aspects of the web. Maps and videos are a good example as they take up huge amounts of storage space. In the early days of computers we all used 'floppy disks'. These could store the text of one book, or one photograph in low resolution, or about 30 seconds of video (with a small picture)! I simplify to make a point. So storing words is the easy part, but even though storage costs have tumbled over the years - we talk about 'gigabytes' and 'terrabytes' for next to no money - the problem remains with storing maps and video because in order to retain the original quality and detail, huge amounts of storage space are needed, and these large files will take time to download to the user. For major institutions with ample funding, the storage cost is not an issue, but for the smaller web contributors the outlay required for third parties to 'host' these specialist websites can be an important consideration. Copyright also has to be taken into account. Almost all museums either own or have been loaned or donated their display items. Copyright permission therefore is not an aspect. The moment a copyright item is scanned and published, either in a book or one the web, by anyone other then the copyright owner, then a charge can be made. Often copyright is granted by the owner as a gesture of goodwill, or to support a venture, but the major institutions, and this includes the Royal Collection and the valuable historical items held at Windsor Castle, can often, though not always, make a charge. These charges can be waived if an educational element is involved, for example. As far as we are concerned at the RWWS, we only publish pictures that are too old for copyright to apply, or for which we have received permission, or that we hold the copyright for because we took the photos. Ditto books and articles. We either write the stories or use non-copyright items. It is true that none of this is relevant as far as displaying the physical item in a museum - that Windsor does not have! So where does this leave us today? The idea of a centralised database is a good concept, and in many respects we have that already in the Borough Collection. Researchers are welcome to see what is available but given that the Royal Borough seem unwilling to fund a museum for the town, the only access is by appointment at the Borough depot at Tinkers Lane. We have the library too, but both locations require time consuming visits and no guarantee of finding the information that you are hoping to find. It is unlikely that Windsor will ever get a large museum due to the costs involved so the longer term answer must be the web, but before that comes about there is a massive amount of work to do to prepare all the items for 'display'. Major institutions such as the British Museum are involved in 'digitising' their collections so that they can be viewed online, but the project will take many years. The Pathé News archive is similarly being made available online, and there are a number of photo libraries offering images of people and events via web access, though a charge is often made. I can confidently predict that the 'centralised source' will be the web, but it will take many people and much cost to achieve it.
cranbourne		#11	[-]
Posts: 17 (10/25/08 03:58:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi Thamesweb yes, I agree - the Internet has made provision of information far, far easier and efficient than ever before, but in some ways, it also discourages people from taking the time to 'research' for something - if it isn't on the Web, then it probably isn't available! Patently, this isn't true, but without guides to additional resources, there is every probability that the required items will not be found. This is where good old fashioned indexing comes into play - give a researcher some indices to peruse, and sources of information not available on the Internet, and usually not from anywhere else either, come to the fore. When I first started taking an interest in the history of our local area, I was only able to see items in print or paintings. I was, however, also given an insight into alternative sources of information, namely the 'selected bibliography' listings at the ends of the books I read. Sourcing these books has revealed a wealth of pictures, maps etc on the local area not available from anywhere else, including the Internet. This was the catalyst which gave me the idea of indexing certain information from local history books which could/would be of benefit and help to others with a similar interest, and more importantly, couldn't be sourced from anywhere else. Here's a small example of what I mean: MAPS: THE HISTORY OF WINDSOR - J.HAKEWILL 1813; p205 map of neighbourhood of Windsor c1813 A SUMMER'S DAY IN WINDSOR - EDWARD JESSE 1841; frontispiece plan of Windsor Castle by Wyattville c1841 ANNALS OF WINDSOR (2 VOLS) - R.R.TIGHE AND J.E.DAVIS 1858; Vol 1: frontispiece , Norden's Survey 1607 map of Windsor Castle and Little Park; p35 map of the Vineyard, Windsor Castle C17th; p671 extract from map of Windsor (Norden 1607) showing Guildhall, Market Cross area; p686 map of Queen Elizabeth's Walk, Little Park, showing Sir John Falstaff's Oak; p692 map of Queen Elizabeth's Walk, Little Park, showing Herne's Oak C19th; Vol 2: frontispiece, Norden's Survey 1607 map of Windsor Forest; p31 Norden's Survey 1607 map of Windsor Town and Little Park HISTORY OF WRAYSBURY, ANKERWYCKE PRIORY etc - GORDON W.J.GYLL 1862 - frontispiece map of Horton and Wraysbury (Wyrardisbury) and surrounding areas c1862 NOTES ON VIRGINIA WATER - REV. F.J.RAWLINS 1866; endpiece map of Virginia Water Lake 1866. SANDBY DRAWINGS AT WINDSOR CASTLE - A.P.OPPE 1947; p39 map of Cranbourne Chase c1750 ROYAL CASTLE, REBEL TOWN; PURITAN WINDSOR IN CIVIL WAR & COMMONWEALTH - R.SOUTH 1981; frontispiece Windsor Town and Little Park, Norden 1607, rear cover Windsor Castle & Town, Norden 1607, p10 Castle & Town 1607, p27 C17th Windsor, p38 East Berkshire 1607 ROYAL LAKE - RAYMOND SOUTH 1983; p16 map (detail) of the site of Virginia Water lake, Norden 1607; p22 map of the main lakes 1983, & map of the first Lake c1750; p41 map of the second Lake c1790-1820; p58 map of the Valley Garden. or maybe for Virginia Water the index would give details like this: VIRGINIA WATER: WINDSOR CASTLE AND ITS ENVIRONS - LEITCH RITCHIE 1840; p268 the Ruins 1840; p270 the Fishing Temple 1840; NOTES ON VIRGINIA WATER - REV. F.J.RAWLINS 1866; frontispiece the Fishing Temple; p8 Chinese junk on the lake (Sandby) c1753; p12 columns at the Ruins 1864; p22 the Ruins c1840; p28 the High Bridge (Sandby) c1752; p30 the Fishing Temple 1864; p40 the Cascade c1860; endpiece map of Virginia Water Lake 1866. ENGLISH WOODLANDS AND THEIR STORY - HOUGHTON TOWNLEY 1910; p258 the Ruins 1910, p270 the Falls SANDBY DRAWINGS AT WINDSOR CASTLE - A.P.OPPE 1947; p40 cascade and grotto, p82 Chinese junk, pl.54 view of Great Park and Virginia Water, pl.55 detail of pl.54 showing waterfall, pl.56 Chinese junk at Ouseley, Old Windsor c1752, pl.58 bridge over Virginia River 1760 ROYAL LAKE - RAYMOND SOUTH 1983; frontispiece Five Arch Bridge c1983; p16 map (detail) of the site of Virginia Water lake, Norden 1607; p17 Virginia Water Cottage & Boathouse 1983; p18 two views of the Lake 1983; p22 map of the main lakes 1983, & map of the first Lake c1750; p27 end of first Lake, Cascade, Grotto & Bridge (Sandby) c1754; p31 Chinese junk on the Lake (Sandby) c1754; p31 Chinese Temple on China Island c1754; p32 High Bridge (Sandby) c1754; p32 the Belvedere (Sandby) c1754; p35 views of Wick end of Lake, Cascade, Ruins 1983; p36 Azalea Valley 1983; p39 the Cascade 1828; p41 map of the second Lake c1790-1820; p42 Fishing Temple from rear c1830; p45 Fishing Temple 1830; p47 the Ruins 1828; p51 Fishing Temple 1842 So, if you're looking for something in particular, and have drawn a blank on the Internet, then here's another possibility. Look at the Index under the heading/place you are researching, and see if there's a hitherto unknown source of info added to the list. Obviously, as with your own website, users will only get out as much as is put in. As with the Family Historians, many projects of this kind are done by volunteers for the benefit of the masses - so maybe it could be arranged as a voluntary contribution or project - perhaps even co-ordinated by the Windsor local history society? As I said, its just an idea, but this particular project could be of benefit to local historians - but, hey, that's something I thought we all shared a common interest in - that's why we're viewing your website! All comments appreciated.
thamesweb	Indexing Windsor	#12	[-]
Posts: 1540 (10/25/08 05:03:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes, you are quite right. My overlong answer was actually still lacking aspects such as these. For example I am often emailed about a variety of subjects and can, sometimes, point people in the right direction from my own knowledge, but the information has yet to get onto the web in a searchable form, often because copyright plays a part. The index or bibliography of course would not be subject to copyright, but preparation time would be involved. If you or others out there would like to do the legwork, then I would be delighted to make it available on the RWWS. One of my longer term projects is to make the Menzies book of the Great Park available on the web. The History of Windsor Great Park and Windsor Forest. William Menzies. Longman Green. 1864 I have an original, believed to be one of the first publications to feature photographs rather than line drawings, and I really must transcribe it and publish it as a PDF. But time is never permitting... Rats. Got to cut the grass before it rains!
thamesweb		#13	[-]
Posts: 1541 (10/25/08 05:08:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	In fact this is the value of this forum, where newcomers can ask questions and often get an answer of some sort or another. It has its limitations of course, partly that not everyone knows about it, and partly because there is the hoop of registration to jump through before posts are permitted. The forum used to be open to everyone without the need for registration first, but the gross abuse by advertisers of unwelcome items knocked that on the head, probably permanently.
cranbourne		#14	[-]
Posts: 18 (10/25/08 09:25:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thamesweb I find the Menzies project very interesting. How do you intend to make the photographs and maps available from the Menzies book? Is it actually possible to do this on a scale where small detail can be seen? The reason for asking is that, if its possible to do it, then the same procedure could be used to allow researchers and enquirers to look at illustrations in other publications - more specifically, those included on the proposed 'index' I have mentioned. I don't have a problem with supplying information from my own library - except that I don't have a means of doing it other than photocopying (subject to copyright) or by letting people see the books themselves!
thamesweb		#15	[-]
Posts: 1544 (10/25/08 12:15:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The plan is to photograph the original photographs with a very high resolution camera, ditto the maps, but as mentioned earlier it will be impossible to make the images available at the highest quality via the web, well, not for the time being anyway. In years to come it will not be a problem as speed of delivery, regardless of size, will be much less of an issue. For the time being therefore the content will be made available on DVD for a nominal charge with a 'taster' version available for free on the RWWS, with much smaller images. As far as the proposed index goes, a low res version of the (copyright free) images could be made available FOC, but high res versions, if required, would have to be charged for. I believe these would then attract a new copyright for the image owner reflecting the creation of the digital image. This is my understanding of the situation in that the original copyright has long since expired, but the current owner of the original image can claim the copyright of the image in its new format. This is how the Royal Collection can retain copyright of, say, two hundred year old Sandby paintings. They actually have the copyright of the (much more recent) prints and photo reproductions! It might be possible to offer digital versions of certain publications that remain in copyright, but the author's permission to do so would need to be sought first. It is a grey area! Last Edited By: thamesweb 10/25/08 12:17:27. Edited 1 times.
thamesweb		#16	[-]
Posts: 1546 (10/25/08 12:27:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	A Good Source for 'Around Windsor in Old Photographs' This is a huge book dealer website that has virtually every book you can think of, at various prices, although they haven't got a Menzies original!!! Well, not at the moment anyway!
cranbourne		#17	[-]
Posts: 19 (10/25/08 12:47:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	thanks for the information - totally agree, copyright is a legal minefield! I think I will have to dig a little deeper into the intricacies of this before committing to create the index - could be a big waste of time if nobody can make use of the information so revealed. A bibliography covering books written about all the local areas could be useful, though - at least researchers could see what titles have been published over the years, (and which may still be available) which may cover their particular areas of local interest. (my own book collection contains over 200 titles, dating from the 1740's to the present day - you are welcome to a list of these) It was the Dedworth photos on this website that got me thinking about all this - this is just the type of material which can be invaluable to researchers, but there's no easy way of accessing it unless you come across this website - or if there was an index to consult! apologies for the diversion - anyway, back to the original topic ...
thamesweb		#18	[-]
Posts: 1547 (10/25/08 14:55:52) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	...could be a big waste of time ... Not at all, never a waste of time. If you start on references from, say, the 1600s, the 20thC stuff will be out of copyright by the time you get to it!! I like the idea very much and will do all I can to help. I know that the Windsor Local History Group has prepared a Resource Pack detailing the publications that members own but the subject is massive. There is a big difference between listing what exists and where to find it, and making available the information itself.
cranbourne		#19	[-]
Posts: 20 (10/26/08 03:55:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"If you start on references from, say, the 1600s, the 20thC stuff will be out of copyright by the time you get to it!! " haha! - many a true word spoken in jest - a good sense of humour is always invaluable ! On the more serious note, thanks for the offer of assistance. I'd like to get a look at the WLHG Resource Pack if possible - if I'm going to give this idea a go, then there's no point in duplicating what's already available. Can you give me a contact for somebody at WLHG, who could possibly provide a copy of the Pack, or advise where/when it can be viewed? I'm also intersted in just how the information listed in the RP is made available to enquirers - does the WLHG have its own Library? thanks
thamesweb		#20	[-]
Posts: 1551 (10/26/08 07:11:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If you would like to send me your email address I will forward the lady's contact email. I am sure she will be able to help. editor@thamesweb.co.uk